Submitted by: Terry Jones
As you all know I have been away in Ireland fishing and there have been quite a few discussions amongst Villa and Liverpool supporters over a pint or two. Now as it happens most of the discussions were about how we thought both teams would do this season and which manager, Lambert or Rodgers have mad the most progress with their respective clubs. I can tell you that most fans over there think it’s Rodgers; at first many Liverpool fans didn’t rate him nor thought he was the man for the job.
Lambert however was the man some Villa fans thought was going to be the new messiah. However whereas Rodgers seems to have took Liverpool forward and their currently 2nd in the league which is real progress. Although Villa lie 9th, most Villa fans I have spoken to are wondering what and if any real progress has been made under Lambert? Most of their concerns are to do with the players he has bought to the club and if his policy of young and hungry is ever going to move the club forward .Or are we going to be mid to lower table, not challenging for anything but just happy to keep our league status. I am inclined to agree with the fans I met and admit that Rodgers seems to have made the most progress; Lambert however is a yes man for Lerner or he is like a mad scientist and experimenting with a vision that could eventualy be his downfall and the clubs.
So whom do you think out of these two as made the most progress Rodgers or Lambert. The majority of fans I’ve spoken to say Rodgers. So where do you stand on this? I would like to read your thoughts.
It is very hard to compare because of the points made in previous comments re spending power and squad change.
I’m happy we got Lambert and not Rodgers, what Lambert did with Norwich is far better than what Rodgers did elsewhere, he inherited an already very well cultured Martinez team at Swansea who would have arguably been promoted anyway had Martinez not left for Wigan and he also hasn’t had to change too much at Liverpool despite the number if signins he’s made.
The stats are very very similar looking with a finer comb so it’s hard to tell. The end of this season we’ll know a lot more and if Villa finish in the top half we can say Lambert has done the better job under the circumsatnces. UTV
Colonius81,
Post of the week for me; very well reasoned.
Unfortunately, you don’t win anything for that, but nice one anyway.
Oohah,
fuck’s sake mate, “the dregs”?
That’s a new low and no wonder you’re getting abuse, imo.
Sums him up, I don’t think that anybody takes him seriously.
His hatred of our club and scorn for the manager and players seethes through in every post.
Andrew,
Some very well reasoned arguments there too.
I’m personally really impressed with some of the debate on here, of late.
Keep it up lads, it’s appreciated and it’s what we’re all about.
Badger mate as well as going to Ireland fishing and discussing football with people over a drink have spent a few weekends on the continent mainly Belgium around Adinkerke and i can tell you and the rest of our friends on here Villa are a club that by what i have been told by those whom i have spoken with over a beer or two have a great following.That is why after my recent trip to Ireland i wrote this articale as the general concencus being is both Lambert & Rodgers have been in charge of their respective clubs for the same amount of time and yet Rodgers seems to have made the most impact.Yes he may have spent more money than Lambert but nobody knows the amount of funding each was given and Lambert seems to be afraid to spend more than £2.5 million on a player.Is this why we have not seen Lambert have the impact on the club we were all expecting.Now i know it;s early days and we are in a comfortable position at the moment.But if we do not maintain it and we fail to finish mid-table and Liverpool maintain their position or even higher will it not prove a point that Rodgers will have made the most impact.
I believe you terry when you say most of the people you have discussed this with in ireland and elsewhere believe that Rogers has made more of an impact.
But I don’t agree with that.
I think it appears that he has made more of an impact but when you compare them both.
they have improved both clubs fortunes to pretty much the same extent.
ie league position, the type of football being played and results.
The fact that rogers has spent more is irrelevant. Initial squad depth is less relevant.
The strength of each clubs following is less relevant.
Both inherited Squad x, both have raised the club x places and both have changed the style of play to Y
When you look closely at it i feel that Lambert has improved Villa as much as Rogers has improved Liverpool
What people are distracted by is the amount of coverage and emphasis on being in the top 4 and of being liverpool .. etc etc.
what’s more glamourous ?
– covering a rise from 8th to a premier league title chaser through continental star name players for 10’s of millions of pounds?
– or following a relegation battler achieve mid table status with unheard of players and no name youth promotions.
Who is going to have more coverage therefore more fan recognition
Rogers started at 8th and is now 2nd
Lambert started at 16th and is now 10th .
To say that lambert has not had as much impact as rogers is to say that we expect him to be competing with rogers in terms of position.. and results and player spending and all the rest that goes into it.
And thats not realistic ..
when you boil them both down to measurable criteria to in order to get a more accurate comparison .. Lambert has done as well as rogers.
How has lambert improved villa when we ended only a fraction higher with worse gd ever than mcleish ffs?
While I still don’t think Lambert’s a good enough manager, the amount of changes he’s had to do to Villa and the fact we ended “a fraction higher” shows improvement in itself.
The whole team has changed.
Given – Guzan
Hutton-Lowton
Dunne-Vlaar
Collins-Clark
Warnock-Bennett
Petrov-Delph
Bannan-Westwood
Ireland-Ahmadi
Agbonlahor-Agbonlahor
N’Zogbia-Weimann
Bent-Benteke
For the most part, those have been the changes to the starting 11 from McLeish to Lambert last season. 1 name remains the same. So the fact we even finished “a fraction higher” shows improvement.
So looking at those changes where are the players better than they were before other than they are a lot cheaper now. At best it’s a like for like squad at worse I think I preferred the previous 11 except maybe Guzan for given and benteke for bent
Now that’s untrue Oohah, do you mean at last that you liked Dunne?
Did you, did you really actually prefer the previous 11? I really am questioning your ability to judge a players talent if you really, really would prefer the old 11.
The previous 11 finished higher in the league enough said
ha ha, what was i thinking ? 16th is better than 15th
In fairness Terry, Benteke cost more than £2.5 mill, but I take your point.
Lambert, on the surface seems loathe to spend on decent, already established players.
Is that deliberate though?
I suspect it’s more because of the wages,
It makes sense that a player with a higher transfer fee will demand a higher wage, something that Lerner doesn’t want to pay imo.
The accounts over the next year or two will make very interesting reading and if Lerner isn’t coining it in, I’ll be very surprised.
I’d say Rodgers has made the bigger impression, but he had much better tools to work with from the off.
I still look at our squad and a small number apart, it just looks soooo average.
I’ve seen Pool fans complaining about their lack of depth, but it’s still way better than ours, imo.
Yes, we have up and coming players, but we’ve had a few debates about how many of our kids push on to the top level and for me, it’s not the way to go.
The point about Pool aiming for the top 4 is a good one, but I really don’t think they are good enough to achieve it, ultimately.
It’s just that they’re more expected to be up there and the media love them, so they get loads of attention.
I don’t see many shouting about Southampton, for example, who I think are a very good side and extremely difficult to beat.
on a separate note i see Honda is a free agent on 31/12 /13 spurs look to sign him
Except Milan have a deal agreed for him, though he can still look around himself, we’d have no chance.
Have you all gone to bed,?
Honda would be great, but he’s way out of our league, given that we’d actually have to pay him competitive wages to make up for the fact that he’s on a free.
Forget any signing of that type for years to come, imo.
Bill, there’s just little news and very little overall interest when we’re not actually playing.
Things will perk up on the run-in to the Spurs game.
Anyone else feel totally underwhelmed by last night’s England performance?
If we can’t afford a Honda what about going for Yamaha or triumph 🙂
The England games bore me to death mate, I’m very patriotic and I want England to win every game but I can’t help but feel Hodgson is holding us back and I get bored watching now. I would be buzzing again if some villa players could get in as it makes it worth watching for me, I get a real buzz when our players do well for England. How gabby hasn’t made it bemuses me, delph should be there if he keeps his game up. The only good thing last night was townsend. This is what happens when the manager picks players desperate to play. The likes of Gerrard, lampard, Rooney just know they will be picked and just don’t have the emotion anymore imo.
Yes, they bore me too.
Just far too much hype about the regulars you mention, but who have no hunger whatsoever, purely because they think they’ve already made it, the ultimate level apart.
Agree mate I couldn’t even be bothered watching on fri. Sick of the itv commentators wanking every time a sky four player touches the ball then making excuses for them if they miss an open goal.
No mate not impressed at all, the only bright light was Townsend, have to say when we get into the finals that’s it’ you could see the worry on Hodgson face, he to me was not the man for that job, a younger man is required with new men and ideas.
Adam like your thoughts but something tells me with that man he only plays old hats, think that’s why he got Pearce out, he’s never an English winning manager.
Gabby to me is worth a shout for England, as he offers something different with his pace, but Delph?
Sorry, but I don’t see it.
As much as I like him and he’s been head and shoulders our best mid this season, we’re talking a very average set of Villa mids, imo.
The call-up may well come at some stage though.
Gabby would never get of the bench if he was called up unless it was in the final 10-15 mins of a friendly or there was a serious injury crises. Hodgsons is a yes man which is y he got the job.
Agree with the sentiments above about England. I dont even watch the games anymore and I actuallly went to the finals in 2004 and 2006. Have totally lost interest since then.
The fact that Lampard and Gerrard are our starting midfielders says it all. A decent international team would wipe the floor with us just like Italy did last time out. We have some great young players around but we overlook them for the ‘old guard’ who have had their chance already. I’m glad he gave Townsend a run-out, but it needs more than that. You can guarantee that the squad for next summer (if we make it) will be 90% from the Top 6 teams, even if the players have spent the whole year on the bench.
I think Gerrard still has something to offer but seriously when the likes of the so called golden generation played in the World Cup at their peak we were still shit. Just playing not to get beat so we could lose gracefully on penalties. Pathetic
I think you’re all being a bit harsh on Roy! They won 4-1 against a very solid, well organised Montenegro side. I also thought Roy picked a strong attacking side, which looked very threatening at times.
I have to say I think you’re wrong mate.
Montenegro looked shocking at the back and the midfield looked piss-poor too.
Very similar to the Villa last season and it was “shots in” for England.
That said, I suspect you share a similar view to the FA and the rest of the hierarchy, where all’s well.
When we qualify for the WC, we’ll no doubt all be ultimately dissappointed, as the truth is we’re shite.
Quarters is as high as we can expect.
I watched the match and wasn’t bored in the slightest! Was particularly excited about the Walker – Townsend combination down the right. Also this Baines adds an extra dimension, particularly from set pieces. However, didn’t think any of the forwards did enough to attack the ball in the air. I think Lambert would have got on a few of those balls into the box. Not sure you can say Gerrard isn’t passionate about playing for his country! Wilshere or Carrick might be a better bet than Lampard, but you can’t really say Wilshere is on form at the moment.
Bencey83. I thought that we have glory hunters in Welbeck and Sturrage both could and should have had more thought for others in passing the ball. Yes Lambert should have had a run out, this is what gets to me, we have players better than Lampard and Gerrard now but Hodgson freighten of change in midfield, the Germans will stick a bag full against them.:-)
Badger – perhaps I was a bit overly flattering of Montenegro when I said they were solid and well organised. On reflection, it was more a case of them getting every man behind the ball in the first half and not giving England any space. I think they were hoping to nick a goal on the counter, which they very nearly did.
I certainly don’t share the view of the FA that “everything is rosy” and think there are massive problems within English football and the world of football as a whole. However, I do think England still have some very talented players and hope they will prove a few people wrong in the World Cup (although I won’t hold my breath!)
I just think some of the criticism of Roy Hodgson is a bit over the top. It’s not his fault he was give the job and I think the guy conducts himself very professionally.
I agree, our squad now is more exciting than under McLeish. Especially this season with Bacuna, Luna, Okore in defence, our defence now shits all over the McLeish defence. The Petrov, Ireland, Nzogbia, Bannan midfield however is a clearly more talented midfield than we currently have, however that talent primarily went to waste, unfortunately. Where as now our players put in everything every game. Id really like to see Popov still come into our team, hopefully in January, and our midfield could be exciting again. Benteke is clearly better than Bent as an all-round player.
The January window approaches and here we go – Juventus Linked with Benteke for £17m (caught offside).
£17m? I don’t think so.