While I still remain confident about the Villa, I think the logical stance is that it’s going to be a big ask that we’re going to beat Leeds and Norwich while Albion lose to Derby too.
Which means overtaking the Baggies looks doubtful, although still not impossible.
Derby might well beat Swansea away and Albion at home, which means they can overtake us, if we lose our remaining two games.
Why did I think we were guaranteed 5th place as we stand? So much for that “O” level maths.
For clarity, if you don’t know already, third place plays sixth place and fourth place plays fifth place in the play-offs.
My mind is blown, given the myriad of options, but it looks to me like we face the Albion and Leeds face Derby.
I’d take us to do the Albion over two legs, although it would by no means be easy.
Leeds-Derby is also a tough call, but I’d plump for Leeds, which means we’d face them in the final.
Which all in all makes tomorrow a game that we should try to win.
While losing to them tomorrow wouldn’t be the end of the world, it would give them a psychological edge and we don’t want that.
Beating them on their own turf means we’d have the edge, obviously.
Squad news and it’s looking pretty good for us.
Gianji Alioski, who did well against us in the last meeting, is out for the season with a torn meniscus.
Kemar Roofe, Leeds’ top scorer, is also out with a hip problem.
Tammy and Hause are still out, but we know we have decent back up and Tuanzebe is available.
Dean Smith has hinted that he won’t play a weakened side and I fully expect Grealish and McGinn to start and I don’t see more than the odd change happening.
So while I remain fully confident, unless we’re going to win fifteen games on the trot, the winning streak continues to concern me.
I think I’d prefer us to drop that and instead maintain our unbeaten run.
Where maybe a draw would keep me happy.
Except I see a few goals in an open game, meaning a draw is unlikely.
I’m drawing a deep breath, but I’m going for yet another win.
2-1 to us.
UTV!
DS confirms that McGinn wont play next week! Sensible decision IMO
Absolutely McGinn shouldn’t play against Norwich. Does anyone know where Davis was? Hopefully Steer won’t be out for playoffs. Got to say Kodja and Grealish were poor today. Mings, Tuanzebe and McGinn were outstanding today and considering we will definitely be finishing 5th, I would field a 2nd string team against Norwich. Put in a couple of U23s if necessary to make up the numbers. Can’t risk anymore injuries or suspensions after Steer and Kodja injuries.
Davis phoned in ill yesterday!
Phew! At least he isn’t injured.
The general consensus amongst fans was that Villa should have played to the whistle and Bielsa was wrong to gift us an equaliser.
On reflection I feel a bit flat after our walk through goal. Although the moral factor was at play, it made Leeds look like the winners with their charitable approach.
There really needs to be a line drawn in the sand after today and that no player kicks the ball out and only the referee can stop the game. That way the players will know exactly where they stand and no arguments.
As for the playoffs we have to hope Abraham is fit because Kodja and Davis lack the presence that Abraham has. Davis can hold the ball up well and works hard but doesn’t score enough. Kodja is a luxury player who is better as an impact player from the bench. This is my biggest concern because elsewhere we can match anyone.
We still haven’t beaten a top 4 team so let’s hope that ends next weekend or in the playoffs.
And those same fans would take a different view if it happened to their team.
It wasn’t a matter of playing to the whistle – Roberts appeared to have agreed to put the ball out and once the Villa players stopped made the pass to Klich who went onto score. Klich, in any case, was offside but I suspect the assistant referee had also been distracted by the interplay between Roberts and the Villa players.
Bamford then got El Ghazi sent off by blatantly cheating which gave Leeds an unfair advantage – no I don’t think the walk through goal made Leeds look good or charitable winners – it gained Bielsa a great deal of respect and quite rightly so.
I agree with BFR – in that players are normally good judges of when to put the ball out where a player is injured and today’s incident is rare.
Fair points, Holte , but consider: what if a player really is seriously injured and the referee, being human, plays on too long. Players will always and should always kick the ball out of play when their instincts tell them that a fellow professional is in trouble. Referees have enough on their plate as it is.
Yes, Villa should have played to the whistle, but Bielsa did the right thing; so what if Leeds look good because of it? Makes a change from them always being the pantomime villains and, most importantly, we’re now unbeaten in 12. I would’ve taken a draw before the game.
As for not beating the top teams, let’s add some context:
We should have beaten Leeds at VP but at the time, the defence was, shall we say, a ‘work in progress.’ Losing away to what will probably be the title winners, when a new manager has just started implementing a new playing style, is no disgrace. And Norwich won’t be in the playoffs anyway. The away defeat at Sheffield doesn’t count. That was during Bruce’s misguided end of tenure. As for the 3-3 draw, coming back from 3 down against another very settled top 2 team, well, that kind of fighting spirit is the stuff that can win playoffs. As for West Brom, we were robbed at The Hawthorns and still had a dodgy keeper between the sticks at the time. The defeat at VP was when we were at our lowest. After that, we’ve done the double over Derby and Borough, smashing them both times. And we’ve taken 4 points off Bristol. So I wouldn’t worry too much about the stats.
A score draw at Albion and a 0-0 at VP would see us at Wembley. I’m not saying this is what we should play for, but my point is, you don’t always need to win to be successful. I recall a super 2-2 at Highbury followed by a 0-0 at VP to get to the League Cup final in ’96. Then, coincidentally, we hammered Leeds to win it. Do you see my point? We can’t win every single game. You do what’s necessary to progress.
I’d be very happy with a competitive draw against Norwich, then we’ll deal with Albion accordingly. It will be tough though, and all the players and coaches will need to be at their best.
Today was a random, crazy game. Happy we’re still unbeaten. Onwards and upwards!
UTV
I predict Leeds will get to the final btw
yesterdays game left me very frustrated and angry. first off this whole thing about putting the ball out of play has to be addressed. i think teams should not be responsible of knocking the ball out of play. it should be down to referee to stop the game if he deems a player is in need of treatment.
the referee yesterday was at fault, had this been the play off finals, we would now be still in championship. all because the referee lost control of the situation. after villa played the ball out for a leeds fake injury. it was only fair for leeds to return the favour. kodjia was not even faking and really did need treatment.
leeds scoring a goal after villa stopped playing, then caused tempers to flair up rightly so. how did from all the hand bags swinging and gesturing. did the lineman see something that just didnt happen. ok bumford deserves a oscar, for some fine acting. but the lineman couldnt have seen anything, as replays showed nothing stroke bumford. apart from his own imagination. the linemans and referee can not send ppl off, for what they think happened, it has to be what they saw.
the game was totally ruined. but the game before this incident was like a game of chess. stalemate was probably going to be the end result. i thought leeds were slightly better in they cause us more problems, than we caused them. but their wasn’t much in it. i also think villa overplayed it at times. the way to beat leeds is to counter them fast and we just never did that. but we should look into this for the final of play offs if we both reach that.
Nath – I agree that up to the goal incident it had been a good game. The other important point on the incident is that Klich was offside when Roberts played the ball to him – same linesman missed that as well as getting the Bamford incident completely wrong! The goal should never have been allowed but, thanks to a fine sporting gesture by Bielsa, the right result was reached in the end.
I agree that Leeds caused us more problems but, on balance, we had the best chances in the game. Grealish had a quiet game, not at his best, but he did come in for some rough treatment, non of which received a yellow card. McGinn makes one poor tackle (made worse because he lost his footing) and gets a yellow!
OK, so I have my claret and blue glasses on 🙂
UTV
Last games of season next Sunday – one televised live. Depending on Derby’s mid week result reckon it could be Derby / Albion or Stoke / Sheffield U. might be an option as they could still be Champions.
Outside chance it might be Villa / Norwich I suppose.
I am not altogether sure but, from the footage and commentary I have seen and tried to work out, the assistant referee appears to be telling the referee Stuart Atwell that he (the assistant ref) had been told by someone else that El Ghazi hit Bamford in the face. If you look at the footage, before Bamford attempts to win an Oscar, there are at least two stewards on the pitch, appearing to try and calm things down. I don’t believe that the assistant ref has seen anything but that one of the stewards, (who is by no means biased of course) has relayed the incident to the assistant ref and he has then gone on to tell the ref what the steward has supposedly seen. If that is the case then, having taken the word of a third party, not connected to the officials, they should not be allowed to officiate again. In any event, Bamford should be banned for his actions.
I read that Hourihane may be in trouble from Sunday’s after goal fracas. There are allegations he threw a punch at Klich – he certainly grabbed his shirt and was booked (apparently). So we may well swop one red card for another but if that is the case then Bamford should also get a ban.
It’s up to the referee to stop the game. The fact that the officials were awful shouldn’t matter. Hourihane should never have kicked the ball out when their defender was down injured. If we had scored from it there would have been moans from Leeds but they would have been towards the referee mostly. Hourihane’s kind act created the chaos that followed. Hourihane was angrier than most because he kicked the ball out and risks punishment for his reaction.
Most of all, I would like to see Bamford banned to try and prevent those who try to con officials in the future.
On a different note I have read that Hogan isn’t eligible for playoffs even though his Sheffield United stint finishes on Sunday. Let’s hope Abraham is fit!
I read the same Holte – re Hogan.
Feel pretty aggrieved with what has happened since the game. Villa seem to be shown in the bad light for “not playing to the whistle” and the fracas that took place after.
The ref definitely didn’t help the situation with how the first half played out. Far too many niggly and constant fouls, particularly on Grealish, which should have resulted in a yellow card and set the precedent for the rest of the game. I don’t want the physicality of the game to be lost, but there needs to be a line.
Did also strike me that Bielsa was railroaded into the decision to let us score. Yet he’s being lauded in the media for his sporting behaviour.
I feel exactly the same way. How on earth have Leeds and Bielsa in particular gained the moral high ground after some of their antics beforehand? Grealish was taken out deliberately early on with a dangerous follow through that was considered a red card by Sky commentary. Bielsa got a yellow card during the game. The Kodja incident when they looked like they would stop and put ball out before carrying on. Bamfords cheating and Jansen defying team orders! And we are accused of whining and not playing to the whistle. In a way I would rather they hadn’t allowed us to walk through and equalise. Okay, we would have lost 1-0 in controversial fashion with 10 men and probably still finish 5th. Leeds and Bielsa would be 100% the bad guys and we will exact revenge in playoffs!
Exactly, if it was a straightforward decision by him why all the effing and jeffing on the sidelines.
Leeds obviously had a game plan to rough us up and rile us. To be fair it worked and Jack was anonymous in the second half. But I’m not having all this show of gratification and how they were very sporting.
Let’s hope we exact revenge on the Baggies for the Rodriguez handball and on Leeds in the final.
not playing to the whistles is happening to all the clubs, because this situation of putting the ball out for injuries is not a written rule. but one of sportsmanship. winning means everything and had that game been the final of playoffs leeds wouldnt have allowed us to score you can bet your life on it.
the game should alter this unwritten rule and command referees to take charge in determining when game should be stopped, take away this uncertainty then all players will continue to play to the whistle.
i would have liked villa to hit leeds more on the counter. nobody else has mentioned this. villa dilly dallied to much when they got the ball back. if you watched the brentford and wigan games where leeds really struggled. both them teams did two things they defended well and they immediately hit leeds fast on the counter. leeds like norwich attack with all the team except 2 centre backs and one holding mid. they are also susceptible to pace, down the left mainly .
maybe its a tactic smith is holding back on not wanting to show his hands in a meaningless game, we still managed to hold leeds and create. but i think we would be more suited to a faster and more direct play when leeds had committed loads to attack and we do have pace in our team
its not a criticism just a observation
in rugby if a player is injured the medical staff run onto pitch and tend to the injured, but the game continues. they could do this in football, so the player receives immediate attention. if they are in the way like say goal mouth. then the referee decides to stop the game and he decides how the game restarts. just take the decisions making away from two competitive set of players whos goals is not to see fair play, but to win the game.
Nath – football could learn quite a few things from Rugby where the attitude is keeping it a fair contest (like the ‘blood’ code for instance and temporary substitutes) yet penalising teams for unacceptable play (sin bin); only very rarely for the worst offences are players sent off.
I, personally, don’t like the yellow card totting up process particularly given the inconsistencies in refereeing and some of the soft reasons for handing them out. Why not introduce a sin bin option in football?
On Saturday’s game, I think what is being overlooked is the fact that Villa had already put the ball out when a Leeds player ‘appeared’ to be injured when Villa where in a good attacking position thus losing that advantage – not the issue of playing to the whistle. Leeds were not even in the attacking third and Kodjia was clearly in trouble when Roberts (deliberately?) feinted to put the ball out and then passed it to Klich who was, in any event, offside. Pure and simply it was, at best, poor sportsmanship.
i think the blood bin sub could be a well worth addition. but football governing bureaucrats work slow to adding improvements.
According to John Percy, El Ghazi’s red card rescinded and no retrospective action against Hourihane. Happy days 🙂
UTV
Just read that Hitch, good news.
Also Bamford charged with deception and, if found guilty, would be subject to a two match ban. Both clubs charged over the disorderly conduct of the players – more money for the FA’s coffers then – perhaps they should charge themselves for deceiving the fans in claiming they actually had officials in control of the game!
Attwell is a premier league referee so the standard is no better there than in the Championship!
i think refereeing in championship has been diabolical and attwell was the worse one we had this season. if he was demoted he needs to again because he and the lineman who saw a elbow that wasnt needs to get his eyes tested and maybe step further down like under 9’s football i hear its slower.
to add further the game against leeds was bubbling along nicely. but the referee and his assistance fooked it up good style.
That very same thought had crossed my mind Hitch, the FA should start to look at themselves, last to take up VCR, putting refs into major venues not experienced enough in the games, all they want is money that clubs find hard to generate. It’s about time they look at why clubs are folding under money matters.
Very relieved that El Ghazi has had his card rescinded and ecstatic that the cheating s**t Bamford is likely to get his come-uppance.
Leeds have had massive problems scoring and, with Bamford out for the first leg, it makes it even harder. Has the probability of Leeds making it through to the final just diminished somewhat?
Also Hourihane has escaped punishment which is another bonus. Still haven’t heard about Steer and Kodja injury situation. I’m not bothered about Norwich game now. We need to avoid losing any more players for Baggies games. It’s a good chance to play Elphick, Lansbury and also give Hutton is last hurrah! Definitely rest Tuanzebe, Mings, Grealish and McGinn! Now the winning run is over it’s time for Grealish to get a new pair of boots considering the ones he wore at Leeds are falling apart.
We have a problem resting players. Under EFL rules at least 10 of the players who ‘featured’ in the Leeds match must be in the 18 man team sheet for the Norwich game. I don’t know whether featured means actually got time on the pitch or were in the starting 18.
This rule came in after Huddersfield rested 10 players for their game with the scum which the scum duly won. As they were in their normal position trying to avoid relegation it didn’t go down well with the teams around them – resulting in this new rule which comes in for the last 4 or 5 games of the season.
So if Steer and Kodjia were to be sidelined by injury and given we won’t want to risk McGinn then our options are limited other than starting one or two from the bench.
That’s disappointing Hitch. Can players phone in sick? Hopefully the ruling will include the whole match day squad! Also assume Whelan, Jedinak and Adomah can count amongst the 10 as substitutes who played.
Good news and bad news Holte; 10 outfield players that were on the team sheet for the previous (Leeds) game so that excludes GK’s. Team sheet is 16 (excluding GK’s) so 10 out of the 16 outfield players from Leeds must be included. That suggests that Smith could swop it around a bit but (assuming McGinn doesn’t feature and Kodjia is injured) then he’s selecting 10 from 14 which means he could for instance start Grealish and Mings from the bench.
Just do what Fergie used to do to get his men out of meaningless internationals; say they’re injured! McGinn: calf strain. Greslish: tight hamstring. Etc etc
I think Norwich just need a point to be confirmed as champions. Whatever team we play I think we should take it as easy as possible. If I was Smith I’d be giving team orders to not get physical with Norwich and that a nice 0-0 or 1-1 draw would be fine.
Must admit, I’m surprised you’re all surprised at Leeds behaviour. Never heard of ‘Dirty, Dirty Leeds’ before? A leopard can’t change its spots.
Hope Bamford misses the next two games rather than delaying the ban until the start of next season. Cheating w***ers.