If you actually watched the game live, you’d probably be saying that we played far too deep, for far too long.
Something I’d agree with at face value.
But my more overwhelming feeling is that we didn’t help ourselves as a team.
How many times were our players too easily dis-possessed by Liverpool players who were working at a great tempo and looking to get the ball back all the time?
Going one down after the first minute or two, when Milner found loads of space amid a slack defence didn’t help and we had to be careful, as they were creating chances all over the place. But only because we were allowing them too, by us being nowhere near sharp enough.
Ok, we only went in one down at half time, but it could easily have been way more, with Liverpool creating chances and finding acres of space at will.
You know we’re in trouble when Sinclair is playing most of his game helping out Hutton, who was constantly under the cosh.
So, basically we were facing an onslaught for the whole first half, but still went in one down.
We were lucky, although Gestede had a blinding chance, where he only had to shoot straight at the goal to have a decent chance of a goal. It went wide.
I’d have liked Traore on when we came back on, as I felt we needed to give them something to think about, but it didn’t happen and there were no changes.
And then they went two up with a very decent goal from Sturridge.
It seemed all over, only for us to actually get the ball out wide for once for Amavi to cross and Gestede, who hadn’t been involved and looked poor, scored.
A minute later though, Sturridge had a similar chance to Gestede’s first half one, one at a much wider angle.
Needless to say, he buried it.
3-1 then and again it looked all over, only for Gestede to score with a stonking header, that left Mignolet no chance.
And then after the subs that Sherwood made, we upped the pressure and started chasing the ball and pressing, as Pool had done previously.
And we got back into it, so much so that a 3-3 result wasn’t off the table.
But it was too little, too late.
So while the tactics were probably designed to try and stifle Pool in the first half, with the new lads coming on later (a tactic that did work to some extent, as Liverpool’s players tired), it was disappointing how the first half team couldn’t up the pace/sharpness when required.
So, a self-inflicted loss for me then, made more disappointing when you consider that Liverpool are poor in defence.
They look very beatable if you actually attack them and Rodgers’ dismissal has only been delayed in my opinion.
No sour grapes there though, they deserved to beat us easily.
As for us, it’s now beginning to become worrying.
There’s no doubt in my mind Gabby would have started today if he possibly could have, for example.
And he’d have offered less than Gestede, given that he doesn’t head the ball that well.
We need to start the likes of Ayew, Gana, Vertout and Traore everytime.
And play those that haven’t worked previously, after, if the new lads can’t do it.
I’ll admit to me becoming a bit concerned now 🙁
The annoying thing is we have, on paper, a decent side….But imo Sherwood doesn’t know how to play a system that would release their potential. We only attack one way and that’s by lumping it to Gestede. We play far to many backward and sidewards passes it slows down another one of our strengths….pace!
We have some fantastic attacking talent and imo he needs to take the shackles off and play to our strengths, which is attack. If we lose 4-3 or 6-5 then so be it but playing the way we did in the first hour today and the first half against Blues is suicide, and simply worrying to much about the opposition, let them worry about us and go for it instead of playing with 3 holding midfielders!
I’d like to see this given a go.
Guzan
Richards Clarke Okore
Bacuna Amavi
Sanchez Gana
Traore Grealish
Ayew
Subs
Bunn
Crespo
Llori
Veretout
Gill
Sinclair
Getsede
I think the attacking potential and energy available in that side could potentially win us a a lot more games than we lose. Also the subs offer another dimension and there is also no place in the 18 for Westwood and Gabby, who both offer absolutely nothing but, when fit, are picked on a regular basis.
With Bacuna and Amavi as attacking wing backs…..Sanchez and Gana protecting the defence and Traore and Grealish given licence to roam from out wide.
Agree u actually think we have on paper a better squad but Sherwoid has no idea how to manage them. I wrote a post pre season and said with that squad we could finish in top ten I still think that but not under Sherwood. I actually like Sherwood from a personality pov and he was a breath of fresh air after Lamberk. I really wanted him to do well but he is so out of his depth it’s untrue. Questions also need to be asked what Wilkins is doing at the club I thought he was there to help Sherwood.
This is a great shout – anything we can do to free up the backs and he could easily drop Sanchez for a more attacking option when needed.
“Sanchez and Gana protecting the defence”
Totally agree, B6
Westwood is one of the ones I’d drop.
Doesn’t do enough, whereas Gana has something to offer. It’s a typical example of what I meant.
Agree Badger
It baffles me why Westwood is constantly picked. He offers absolutely nothing. His set pieces are abysmal, he only plays simple side and backward passes I don’t get exactly what he offers. If someone could explain I’d genuinely be grateful but from what I see, like Gabby, he is a waste and needs to be replaced by someone who at least offers something.
Sherwood and tactics seem to be a million miles apart. It is concerning, especially when you look at Ayew who found form against the Blues was kept on the bench. He seems to be a manager who plays on confidence but sonce Southampton he has dropped and substitued the wrong player with the wrong player.
He needs to sort it out quickly
The warning signs were there after saints result u don’t lose 6.1 when your supposedly trying to impress a new manager.
I’ve given up now, I can see no way is Sherwood the man to run Aston Villa full stop, We even got Wilkins doing sod all for the club in an advisable capacity, yes Westwood has to be dropped so has Sinclair, I know Gestede score but I dont think he gives anything more than his head. The worst in 29 years!! Alarm bells should be ringing on Sherwood’s input to date, we are a laughing stock to the rest of the premiere league. Shit team shit manager.
Newcastle beating Chelsea 1.0 so secind from bottom now grim times
Not sure I agree about the ‘laughing stock’ comment but can’t argue with anything else you say Bill. We are playing better football than we did under Lambert but we seem incapable of delivering positive results. I think it’s something like 30 games in the PL since we last won a game coming from a goal down – that’s a really worrying statistic. As to TS tactics / selection – I really don’t understand why he didn’t start with Ayew and Vertout both of whom showed enough against Blues to warrant a start. Finally, I thought TS was all for trying to win and yet today we saw a ‘park the bus’ set up. It seems to me that TS is over complicating the tactics – maybe he should go back to ‘f***ing attack them for all you’re worth; maybe he’s try big too hard to be a manager looking to the long term rather than just trying to win the next game – but then what do I know.
H60,
valid comments, which I alluded to in the headline post.
The usual “reliable”, yet unproductive sorts should be dropped, as they just aren’t working.
I don’t believe things are that bad yet, Bill.
As has been said, we have a decent squad and it’s about Sherwood making them play.
I’m disappointed that a chap of your vintage has given up so quickly, tbh.
Fwiw, I suspect Sherwood will learn quickly and he still has until Xmas, for me.
The major worry is that he might go too defensive, same as Lambert did.
I felt our best form of defence was attack today and Sherwood was slow at instigating it.
A better team than pool would have been 3 up at half time.
If he’s here till Xmas badger we are down mate act now after next week we have boring international break coming up that’s the perfect time to do it
Rubbish.
Sherwood at least will change the team up, as opposed to Lambert, who you think is better.
He’ll get Xmas, without a doubt, as the squad is way better than the shit Lambert bought in, which means if we do have to change manager, the incomer will have a chance.
Sack the manager 6 weeks in, after gutting the squad?
That’s what you call fickle, imo
Most of us knew we might struggle at first, but in fairness this isn’t now about gelling; it’s about playing the right players.
Give the bloke a chance.
If we listen to you, we’ll be changing managers every few months.
Badger, I get where you’re coming from regarding we now have better players so Sherwood needs more time. But mate he isn’t playing the better players that he has brought in. He is persisting with the crap he was left with, the crap he himself branded as having a losing mentality. If he was changing the team and playing his own players then maybe, just maybe, he would deserve more time given the fact that his players have no or very little prem experience.
Sacking the manager after 6 weeks in isn’t being fickle at all, based on the results from the back end of last season, that many seem to forget.
Giving a manager time to bed in his own team is fine, and I totally agree that he should be given more time to do that…on the understanding that is what he does…..beds in his own team…but he isn’t. He is persisting with the crap he branded as having a losing mentality. If he is continuing to persist with his favourites who aren’t performing for him and constantly picking players that are so out of form it’s like watching an O’Neil team, then he really should be relieved of his duties.
In his defence he has signed some top drawer players. He also constantly reminds us that these players need time to adjust to the premier league. So to adjust surely you play them? Because in 2-3-4- months time when we are in the shit big time what is he going to do with a team that, because of his persistence in playing players that have the “losing mentality” he is going to be left with players with no premier league experience.
He has to play his own players now and stop hiding behind players that “aren’t good enough” for the league. Maybe his players won’t be good enough but he signed them so the least he could do is play them.
Well said B6
B6,
Did you actually read what I said in the headline post?
Read the last paragraph or two again, if you did.
Il remember what u said Badger but don’t come crying to me in Dec when it will be too late. Im never wrong. And yes the facts are there 4 points from 21 points us a lot worse than under Lamberk how can u say he is better with that record. Go and have a lie down 🙂
You’re never wrong?
Seriously, don’t flatter yourself.
You’re very often wrong.
Now you go and have a lie down and come back when you think you might actually have a chance of seeing a positive about the club or team.
I’m quick enough to criticise, but can see plus signs sometimes.
You, you’re beyond hope and frankly, I don’t know why you bother supporting the Villa.
Actually, you don’t support in any way, do you?
You only know how to criticise and I’d love to have seen your comments if we’d been here when we won the league and the EC.
I’ll bet a pound to a pinch of proverbial you’d have been moaning then too.
Ha ha you make me laugh Badger. When have I ever been wrong. I said Mclown Lamberk and Sherwoid would never work I was right. I said Dunne Vlaar and now Lescott were shite and J was right. I said last season Sherwiid would never sustain it and I’m right. I said we will never be more than a bottom 6 team under Lerner and guess fuckin what I’m right. So don’t give it large that I don’t no what I’m talking about!
Ps go and have a lie down until you realise I do no what I’m on about.
What do you people think about these Audioboom links (official type commentary at the top of the page) that I’ve put up lately?
They’re a bit too official for me, but if people find them helpful, I’ll keep posting them.
Feedback appreciated chaps 🙂
I like them.
Cheers, OLL
Lads I just hate loosing, we are doing it far too much and damaging the club in general, we shouldn’t be in this position for a club of our size, if Sherwood can’t get them to jell then move him on, as for Wilkins what’s his roll? we are not a convalescent home and it might has well be for what he does. We did this last season and fans was saying give it time, me sod it I want fighting players in my team not woofs, and yes Badger good thing to have a audio boom , at least it gives us an insight to what the man on the spot thinks.
Just watching Newcastle natch how well organised and passionate they are. Closing Chelski down in their faces from word go. Something we just never do for a full 90 mins
Aaaaahhhh the good old days when we actually competed, we were a joy to watch and as long as the team gave 110%, which they always did, a defeat was far easier to stomach than one that we weren’t competing in for 90 minutes. Now a days competing doesn’t seem to be a part of our game. When was the last time a good, solid tackle actually got you out of your seat and got you so pumped up you just wanted to get on the pitch yourself and fight till the death for the cause.
How shit has watching Villa and football in general become?
Points noted Bill, Cheers.
See TS post match comments – ‘we need to stay in this division and if we do…….’ IF WE DO – now this is starting to be of concern as it seems our manager (and presumably our management) are not confident over the club’s future. Apart from anything else it say whatever the results this season TS job is safe.
1012202 and 0122313. It is easy enough to find the weak link in the current team if you look at the EPL goals scored and conceded. Eight goals in seven games is a couple of goals shy of what we need to score, but 12 goals conceded in seven games is a relegation team’s tally equating to 66/67 for the league season.
I am not as patient as Badger, I have given TS until the end of September to produce improvements. He has done half the job, in improving the cutting edge up front, but the other half which is stopping us giving up cheap goals has not been addressed. In fact it is getting worse. The shifting out of the Lamberts losers legacy is only half done. The chance to get a better keeper was passed up. Gabby Westwood and Hutton still appear unless injured, but their record is crap. Grealish has to be told to produce more or get hooked. He is a bit of a flat-track bully, plenty of swagger against lower class opposition but he is anonymous too often against the big boys.
Some good points OLL.
Re the goalie, I’m not sure how you can blame him for anything today.
If anything, he kept us more in the game and did well.
But I do know what you mean.
The defence is the big problem, I agree, but I couldn’t even hint at how it should be adressed.
I said in the previous post that our defence is a concern and look what happened; a chance in the first minute and a goal.
What can you do about that?
And it’s the sort of problem we’ve had for years under various managers and coaches.
Oohah often slags them, but Dunne and Collins were a way better pairing than anything we’ve had since, for example.
Strange that, after having had such good defences for probably the previous 20 years.
As for Grealish, how can he produce, when we can’t get the ball in their half?
He’ll never be a defender as long as he has a hole in his proverbial, but that’s what he was asked to do today, along with Sinclair, imo
Guzan’s positioning, which comes from his anticipation, or rather the lack of it, is poor. Milner’s strike was an awful long way out to beat a top keeper with a ground shot, and Guzan didn’t get within 4 feet of it. No fault for the second Sturridge could have put that inside either post, luck if the keeper guesses right. Third epitomises why I think he is too bad for the EPL, Sturridge could not have put that ball inside the right post, his body balance was all wrong unless he stops the ball and uses his left foot by which time the defender catches him. So the ball has to go inside the left post. Guzan has not moved in anticipation.
Go back to Brad Friedel quitting. Thereafter Villa’s defence has been leaking like a colander with Guzan in goal and a variety of defenders play as if they have confidence in him. His supporters are all blinded by Guzan’s athleticism. When he knows where the ball is going his ‘gets’ are among the best you will see. Trouble is, he does not know where the ball will go far too often.
have NO confidence…
OLL, spot on that trains of thought past my mind as well, having old hats could be dangerous to the team in jealousy, back biting, and them thinking your after my job. Its not improved has it having last years losers. When are we going to get value for money.
think we have to start with vertout, and gana, Sanchez, is a liability i do like the guy but he gets caught in possession too much i think westy is being told to play too far forward he has played his best games when he was clearing up after an attack, with his calm and sure passing i think villa’s style of late has left him behind, the whole of midfield need to be in contact with each other they are too far apart to offer any support it seemed every time we lost possession it was the player trying to turn with the ball, personnel skills need some work.
Don’t criticise Badgers love child
Watched the game on the internet and Badger’s right, the score definitely flattered us. The one thing he did get wrong though was that Hutton crossed for the first goal and not Amavi. I actually thought Hutton had a good game, and his crossing was a lot better, the one for Gestede’s first was a belter. I know he’s viewed by a lot of you as one of Lambert’s losers, but I’d rather him at full back than Bacuna, and I’d rather Senderos at CB than Lescott. I know I’m a bit obsessed with my criticism of Lescott, but I never rated him at Citeh, never rated him for England, never rated him at W.B.A. and I certainly don’t rate him now!
You are of course correct Dave,C
Very good cross from Hutton, but he’d put some crap ones in beforehand.
I don’t think he played badly today; he was just overwhelmed.
Too much to try and remember in one go these days, I’m afraid.
I do my best though and appreciate being corrected 🙂
Dave C, I didn’t see the game but in the MOTD clip Hutton’s best moments were on the ball going forward. Sturridge skinned him twice.
I’d rather we brought Baker back than Senderos put in, but yeah. Clark has to start next to Richards. Sad Richards was given the captain armsband, shows why we went to Lescott as Sherwood wanted them together and this means Richards would never get dropped. Clark’s getting screwed in all of this, our best CB. Sad.
Agree about Lescott Dave C never rated him either and he’s a real liability. My mate who’s a baggies fan can’t believe we’ve bought him he’s so glad he’s gone. Agree on Hutton as well unfairly treated just because Mclown signed him.
This is not a one off I can see things getting pretty ugly as time goes by.Sherwood is another Lambert and the players are young and inexperienced and the ones that are older are has bins or trying to resurrect a career.I admit I am concerned and feel we will be in a relegation scrap again.Im not feeling confident about any game which is the same feeling I had at the end of Lamberts reign.We are shipping far to many goals don’t now what Sherwoods doing but it isn’t working.We should be playing a 4-3-3 with a CDM IMPO.utv
Very poor performance today. 3-2 against Liverpool at Anfield is not a terrible result, but anyone that watched the game knows we should have been hammered. 18 shots on target. How Sturridge didnt get 3, I’ll never know.
What worries me is I think we have a good squad now. I just dont think Sherwood has any idea when it comes to tactics and formations. He has failed in every single game (bar second half against Blues) at getting the team right. We sat so deep for so long and just let Liverpool dictate the game. Only in the last 20 minutes at 3-1 down did we impose ourselves on the game at all.
Spurs fans said Sherwood would get found out, I hope he proves them wrong…but so far this season, I’m not convinced he will.
That’s the thing Benno.
We can all see what’s going wrong during the games.
In this case, it was because, as you say, we were penned in our own half and couldn’t get out.
Is anyone seriously telling me Sherwood and the coaching team can’t see it?
I refuse to believe that, as I don’t believe they could be that incompetent.
I keep going back to that comment, where Sherwood said he would have to play a certain team, at a certain time.
If Sherwood is playing a game in trying to find out about the squad, it’s a very dodgy one.
The sad thing is, I really want Sherwood to be a success at Villa. There would be nothing better than us having a top young English manager at the club. And yet, every game, I just feel more frustrated by the tactics/changes he does. We need a result against Stoke next week to turn things around. Hopefully he gets it right against them.
And I totally understand your frustration mate.
Pool were there for the taking, if we’d gone at them from the off.
The trouble goes back to what I hinted at earlier.
If the defence can’t handle the first test, in the first minute or so, what chance has a manager got of the game going to plan?
We were on the back foot near enough from the start and I’ll bet Sherwood is as frustrated as us.
All that said, it’s the manager’s/coach’s job to sort it out and it doesn’t seem to be happening.
We scored two at Anfield and it should have been enough, imo.
A win against Stoke?
That’s a big ask.
The thing is, I believe we have easily enough in the squad to get the win.
Which I guess is what we’re all moaning about.
On the basis of the results so far how do we know we have the basis of a good squad? We have a few expensive (ish) players that are yet to prove themselves. Gana, Amavi Gestede (you can’t knock Gestede’s goal scoring which is what he’s paid to do) and probably Richards have proved to be decent buys. What does it say about the quality of TS’ other buys if he doesn’t think they’re good enough to play in a losing team! The balance of the team looks all wrong and I feel the problem lies in midfield (not defence) which looks lightweight and desperately needs an enforcer who is a constant performer sitting in front of the defence. I thought Sanchez would do that but he looks off the pace of the PL – perhaps Gana can do the role?
We havnt got a good squad a good squad has game changers we have Sinclair & Gil which in all fairness have some flair but it’s inconsistent as they are not top draw which top draw are in a good squad.We have once again a miss match of inexperienced players and a few has beens we are in trouble if you can’t see that you must be blind like I was with Lambert.We are poor at the back shipping silly school like goals.Midfield can’t pick a pass and our managers clueless de Ja vu anyone.
personally i feel vertout will be his best buy when he came on yesterday he released other players and he is always there for the ball, but i think the team thought amori was the saviour but just giving him the ball and let him do his thing with no support will soon destroy him,don’t think Sinclair can play as a twin striker he cant get close enough to gestede,if you think back to how a twin strike force should work withe/shaw, little /gray they were never half a pitch apart
Billy’s boots, just was going to say I thought he was lacking thought when they scored their 3rd, he just stood looking at the striker? Does he own number 17 shirt,? It might be me but that’s what it looked like, have to start agreeing with Oohah on Lescott ,he gets himself in loads of mistakes, and why take Grealish off? Westwood needs to be targeting getting rested its showing weakness in midfield just lately, I just don’t know why we are so lazy at football ,5 defeats 1 draw only Sunderland can match that, its going to be our year for going down unless he stems this bad run.
Amori? fecking song was in my head Traore!
don’t think you can play Sanchez and Westwood together Sanchez can beak up play but gets caught in possession to much westy he’s more like a water carrier all teams need someone like this but i feel he’s being asked to play in a different role and he’s not suited, vertout is now getting the confidence to replace either westy or Sanchez,which should make the space to play jack or gil without having to worry too much about them having to play as defenders for half the game. not too worried at the moment just upset that they have put themselves under so much pressure, just as an aside don’t think baker, or Clarke would of let milner have such an easy shot without being put in row z
I’m no tactical genius, otherwise I’d be plying my trade in football management or coaching, however, sometimes it’s VERY plain to see what is wrong with us.
Veretout needs to start every game. Why you might ask; he’s hardly set the world alight in his appearances. Correct, however he is the only attack-minded central midfielder a-la Delph. Delph did both destroyer and creative presence for us in the midfield. Gana has shown glimpses of being able to do that but it’s early days. Gana is best destroying currently.
Therefore we need somebody to break the midfield line and drive at the opposition. Veretout has, each time I’ve seen him, offered that to a lesser or great degree.
Secondly, as much as I like Gestede, he offers NOTHING in behind and with the likes of Sinclair being the only forward player who has proper pace in the line up, it’s asking a lot for him to break past defenders from a wide position as well as backup the full back. If we’re going to play with Gestede, I think it needs to be in a two.
Finally, defensively we look decent. We have quality in our ranks but seemingly no leadership. I’d be tempted to do one of two things in our next match. Either revert to a 4-3-1-2 and have Grealish behind Gestede/Ayew, and have Westwood/Sanchez, Gana and Veretout in the middle, or, if we want to throw caution to the wind, play an attacking 4-4-2 with Gestede and Sinclair up front, Grealish and Ayew in inside forward roles and then you pick of two in the middle.
We have more quality across the first 11 than last year, however unfortunately we’re nowhere near as strong up front which is what bailed us out.
#UTV and we move on!