I’ve deliberately held back in writing this, as when you’re on a losing run as we are, it’s far too easy to go for a knee-jerk reaction isn’t it?
And there’s no doubt my immediate reaction was “sack the manager”. Having read around on here and other sites, it seems I wasn’t alone.
I’m only going to talk briefly about the game and for me it was a shoe-in loss, so I wasn’t in the slightest bit surprised at the result. In fact, if you’d offered it me at the start, I’d have taken it.
I said that the performance was more important than the result and what annoyed me was the way we folded after conceding.
Now we can debate if we played well in the first half or not, but my money says we’d done a decent job of nullifying Newcastle. Were Newcastle poor or did we make them look poor?
What’s beyond debate (I hope!), is that we looked probably the better team overall and definitely the most likely to score. Until the goal, of course.
Fist corner, first shot, absolutely rubbish goal.
Typical Villa.
But I still felt that we were very definitely in the game.
And then came the second half, where… well, we all saw it.
Another rubbish goal then and we just looked more and more gutless as we went on.
And it’s this part that worries me.
Now I can’t see how Bruce can be blamed for either of the goals. The first was pinball and it happens.
The second was plain and simply shocking defending and for me, both were down to individual errors again.
How’s that the manager’s fault?
Whatever, the game’s over, so I don’t see the point on dwelling on it too much.
Just as the players looked more and more clueless, so the cameras cut to Steve Bruce and it was this that shocked me most of all. Bruce looked distraught and appeared to be asking Colin Calderwood what to do.
And it’s the look of desperation that stunned me.
If the manager doesn’t know what to do, how can we expect the players too?
When you consider we signed around five Captains and not a single one of them seems to want to take the lead, you have to ask what’s going on?
Then add the fact that only Hutton went to see how Hogan was, when he did his ankle and the mind begins to boggle.
I know a lot of the players have only known each other a few weeks, but if I saw a workmate go down with an obviously painful injury, I’m damn sure I’d go and see if they’re alright.
They’re on the same team aren’t they?
Or are they and this is where our problems arise?
I really don’t know, but it’s all too depressing.
Apparently an ex-club official has come out and said that they expect a 50-60% sucess rate on signings.
It’s early days (or is it?), but not a single one of our winter signings have had a remotely standout game.
Consider that we’ve cherry-picked supposedly the league’s best players and it becomes all the more concerning.
How is it we make what we all accepted as very decent signings, instantly look so poor?
I don’t understand it.
I’ve said it before, but no matter what we do, nothing works. Nothing.
Yet after all this, I’m still not for sacking Bruce.
In fact I think I’m becoming even more convinced that we have stick with him, whatever happens.
You can mock.
But my opinion says if Bruce can’t get these players to play, who the hell can?
Rowett or the likes?
Don’t make me laugh.
Whatever it is that’s wrong down the villa (and I firmly believe we’re not seeing the real reasons), will overcome them quicker than it has Steve Bruce.
So that’s my current standpoint, which I’m sure will have some of you suggesting I’m quite mad.
But of course, it’s not my decision to make.
Dr Xia dropped a very big hint in a Tweet the other day, when he said that the first requirement was a manager with guts. It’s common knowledge that Di Matteo didn’t like turning in every day and it seemed to me a blatant reference to this.
Or in other words, Bruce does and is working hard to sort things.
Will that be enough for our owner to stick with Bruce?
Again, I don’t know, but this is simply a results driven business.
I’ve seen a few fans suggesting that we need at least 6-7 points from our games against Derby (H), Bristol City (H) and Rotherham (A).
I seriously doubt we’ll get much out of Derby (my Derby mate is well confident) and Bristol City, maybe.
But if we get nothing from those two (would you bet against us? er yes, I would actually, but won’t).
Then it would all come down to the Rotherham game, where if we couldn’t beat them, surely Bruce’s position would be untenable?
So what’s with me being so downbeat?
Well I just don’t see any fight or balls in this team and that is the first real basic requirement in this league.
Still I’m getting ahead of myself and we all know things can turn on a sixpence.
Let’s see how things pan out.
And to cap it all, I had a stinking cold or bug or something hit me like a hammer a couple of hours before the game.
It never rains…….
So, what your saying do exactly the Same we did last season ? Nothing, if he cannot motivate them now when will he. you seen what I’ve seen he was clueless, he’s already made massive blunders in picking wrong position for player’s, sorry I’m for punishment for the crimes, he has to go.
And I can genuinely see why you think that Bill.
Now name me a manager who you think wouldn’t fold in 5 minutes?
If I could think of one, I’d probably be calling for him too.
i quite liked the idea of Pearson because of his discipline, but now think he’d be sacked in his first couple of days, due to a punch-up.
Bill, fully understand but I reckon the problems at Villa extend far beyond changing the manager. Like Badger I think bringing in a Rowett or Warburton would just destroy them and would Warnock fare any better?
Dr. T made a massive mistake in appointing RDM and we’re still suffering from that on top of last seasons debacle. I suspect Blues will rue the day they appointed Zola although I don’t really care 🙂
That’s about the only thing that is keeping me able to see the funny side of the game Hitch.
How stupid do they look?
Yet all us fans knew it, including pretty much all the noses I spoke too.
Interesting observation Badger – I thought Bruce looked close to tears towards the end of the game and I felt for him. I went through a really bad patch in management and ended up breaking down rather publically – but that’s a different story! Showing passion and emotion for the club and the team – what’s so wrong with that?
I’m not sure about your interpretation of his discussions with Calderwood. A good manager will always seek input from those around him but ultimately must make the decisions – although it seems whatever decision the manager takes the players bollox it up. Having said that I would like to see Calderwood gone and Mike Phelan, who Bruce really does trust, brought in to give him the support he needs at the moment.
Like you I’m a little surprised at the criticism Bruce has received for losing a game pretty much every Villa fan expected to lose. Did anyone really believe we would go gung ho for a win? Once again the players let us down and managers can prepare, set up team strategy, tactics etc. but if the players fail them … well?
Notwithstanding performances have been consistently and disappointingly poor – I thought Kodjia was a liability yesterday – I think it’s Oohah that has questioned his performances away from home. He dillied and dallied on the ball and I don’t think he managed one meaningful pass. If Bruce was at fault, it was in not substituting him before he got injured.
Bruce needs 6 points from the next three games otherwise I don’t see how Dr. T can resist the pressure from the fans.
Actually a mid got the ball and seemed to me to deliberately pass it behind Kodjia, to slow things down.
There was no one for him to pass to up front, if he’d got a well paced ball, anyway and I’m sure it’s deliberate.
There was another one, where I think it was Kodjia again.
Gets the ball on the left, has no-one up top and passes back to a defender.
It boils my piss, as we have no hope of scoring if we don’t get the ball where it matters.
Again, it’s got to be instructions.
And it’s easy to see why people slate Bruce.
We have all these attacking players and just don’t use them to their best.
Lansbury? Very average.
Hourihane, frankly crap up to now.
Hogan? Sorry to say, he won’t be missed because he doesn’t get a sniff. Has he had a single chance in 5 games?
Bjarnason? Grafter in the Carrodus mould for me, but seems aimless.
And the fact that we look terrible as soon as Jedinak is out, is just shocking.
How can we be so reliant on a player who’s frankly on his last legs, but consistently one of our better players?
And when you consider Hutton of all people is probably our most consistent and reliable players, well……
It’s totally bewildering Hitch.
“Showing passion and emotion for the club and the team – what’s so wrong with that?”
Absolutely nothing Hitch.
I’d much rather that, than a manager who doesn’t give a toss.
It seems to me he’s as frustrated as we are.
Amen to that Badger
Lads, there’s true in all your saying about the team and something not right, but it don’t hide the fact that either players are taking us for a ride and don’t care, or the manager lost the plot.Bruce has never had a club like Villa and all its problems, i bet he wants out because he doesnt know what to do with that lot, the worst problem is his backing team, we reverted to tip taping and hoofing the ball again. Yes the best player was Hutton on the day who most of us wanted him gone. F”-;:ked if I know the answer because Bruce don’t.
Bill – a comment last night was that many of our players are not used to the expectation levels at a club like Villa nor are they used to playing in front of 30,00 plus crowds on a regular basis and this was having a real effect on their performance levels. You are extending that to Bruce. JV posted that the only other club that SB has managed with similar expectation levels was Sunderland and claimed that he failed spectacularly.
On the other hand how many posters have implored the club to look for bargain basement deals with players from lower divisions a la Vardy and bring in managers with no more experience of ‘big’ clubs like Villa than Bruce has – rather less I suspect.
I have no bl***y idea what the solution is.
SB seems to me to be in this on his own, in that I mean where are Clemence and Calderwood during games to try and alter things during a game, put there point across and try to influence a game. I really feel for SB at the moment, but what the other 2 are doing begs the question, not only during the game but in training at BMH. Just one win could change everything but we need a lift pretty dame quick,
Bill and Rocky, it’s interesting that you both seem to think it’s his assistants.
If that’s the case, it’ll be interesting to see who goes first, Bruce or them?
Ultimately it’s Bruce. he is the manager so the team should be in his image. That means he selects his team of assistants and tells them how he wants the team to play. The buck stops with one man. It’s a tough job but you either deliver or you are gone.
I don’t want to see anyone suffer like he clearly is. My team comes before that sympathy though.
what a finnish by falco
stones 50m
villa about 50m who got worst deal
Fantastic finish. Isn’t it nice to watch a match and just enjoy it rather than feel you are about to have a heart attack?
DS, did Bruce choose his assistants though?
That’s a bone of contention, with many saying he strongly wanted Phelan.
Badger it is nearly always the manager that carries the can. But there just seems to be no shared responsibilities. It is surely down to basics and we are not doing the basics on the training pitch. We can all see the problems. so what they must do to coach these players in training is obviously not working. We just look like a team of individuals, no partnerships and very little collective team spirit. Have we made too many signings and changing the team significantly worked against us? Do not forget we all called for these signings to be made. and as it stands it has not changed us as a team as yet results wise,
That’s partly my point and why I can’t agree with sacking Bruce just yet, Rocky.
You’re right. The manager carries the can.
But I’m really not convinced it’s all his fault.
If we get into serious relegation trouble and Xia sticks, I think it’ll be a basic admission that we still have massive problems that will need working through.
Wyness the guest on the WM football phone in this Friday.
I wonder if anyone will ask him what the hell is going on re; customer service and corporate?
And if he fancies moving and renaming the ground?
He’s gone right down in my estimation, I’m afraid.
Mate that’s your/our opportunity to put that to him, he ought to be put right through the mill.
Dr Tony is being very badly advised. The board screwed up in October. Wagner was potentially gettable then and its staggering they didn’t even try for him. The net consequence is that Huddersfield Town are looking like a PL team in waiting, whilst we are looking like a league one team in waiting. That says it all.
Well, that’s the other side of my argument, I guess 🙂
The only trouble is, I don’t believe Wagner would have been able to sort this out.
Bruce and Round have collectively made an error by having an overhaul in Jan. An overhaul to that extent has probably worked for a handful of teams but with a preseason to develop formations and partnerships and to allow time to settle into a rhythm. This has been compounded by Bruce stubbornly persisting with likes of Bjarnsson and Johnstone when Adomah and Bunn are, right now, stronger options. It’s like he feels compelled to field all of his signings. Also, so little clear cut goal scoring opportunities have been created as there’s limited movement off the ball. I’m not averse to Bruce getting some more time but if it’s not working, new manager should be installed 7 games before end of season and it should be manager that encourages movement. I believe the squad is strong enough.
So 7 more games?
I could possibly live with that, but by that time, it might be just as well to let Bruce see the season out.
I’m really hoping it won’t come to that.
On a brighter note just watched Monaco rip Man C a new arsehole for 70 minutes and considering they where bottom of the French division two not so long back shows just what is possible.
Difference being that Monaco have a really good scout network and have bought in some fantastic players, i think part of our problem for many years has been our scouts, over the past 10 years can anyone think of any players of note that have been worth the money paid for them? other than Young, Milner and Benteke.
We are desperately hopeless in the market.
Joe Bennett -Jordan Bowery-Nicklas Helenius- Aleksandar Tonev – Charles N’Zogbia.
Guest just how can you say that????
Just the tip of the iceberg that BWS 🙂
AV – wouldn’t surprise me if terms of Johnstone’s loan requires us to play him ‘regularly’ – another question for Wyness?
Hitch, wouldn’t that be open to be given a bum stear ? couldn’t imagine business people would fall for that, you maybe right but a manager would be a fool in my mind. yes a chance to learn but that’s up to them.
That’s a great pun Bill (bum Steer!) 🙂 Whilst it looks like it’s a foolish way to go forward, if the manager feels he has improved the team through a loan deal and the loaning club want the player to get more experience I can well see some sort of agreement between the clubs to use them on a regular basis.
RDM WHY? WHY? WHY?
6 points away from relegation, with the worse form in the league – We need a change and fast, the players have come for the money and really don’t look happy…. Sacking Bruce will be negative in the long run for stability, but so will division 1…. I would go for a new manager, as we may just get a ‘new manager bounce’ whilst we still have a hope of staying up.
And the fire may be beckoning Saddened ….. you’re damned if you do and damned if you don’t – what a mess.
Agreed H60, a complete mess – we need some luck and fast !
Chris Samba good / not or are we turning into QPR??
BWS – thinking about Monday’s game and Samba. Did SB play Elphick rather than Baker ‘cos he was concerned about Gayles speed? When Mitro what’s his name came on he bullied our defence and made a big difference. Maybe SB should have brought Baker on to counter it. My point is we don’t have a big and nasty CB – hence Samba and it might not be such a bad move with the Jedi as well would give us more steel.
To be fair 32 ain’t that old for a centre half and back in the day Samba wasn’t too shabby was he? What does concern me is why is he presently without a club?
Injury (prone)?
Attitude?
Other bad habits?
A fit Samba would be an asset to any club and he’s gotta be better that Elphick and less brittle than Baker, worth a gamble with a contract till the end of the season?
If we sign him, it just reeks of desperation imo.
By that I mean lets see if we can think of another washed up defender who couldn’t hack it in Greece.
Hmm.
Problem is Badger – We are bloody deperate, anything to put a bit of fight in the team.
We are desperate too !!
Actually, looking at rhe squad, you’re right.
For some reason I thought we’d got a bit more backup, but we only have Baker, Chester, Elphick and Richards.
Bedeau is too young and Toner, who was deemed good enough to get a few run-outs in the Prem (and did ok, from memory) is on loan.
First reports suggesting Hogan out for five games – problem is they’re guessing and always over optimistic. Hogan himself thinks injury not as bad as at first feared – more optimism. Why don’t they take some of that onto the pitch with them.
From the Fans consultation meeting;
“Would Steve Bruce take part in a fans’ forum?”
Keith Wyness:
“I can’t speak on Steve’s behalf but I see no reason why the two of us couldn’t do one together at the beginning of next season.”
A slip of the tongue, or just a stock answer, do you think?
I’d interpret more of a statement of intent…
Bruce will be here next season come what may and regardless what you lot think.
Love KW
Very minded to agree, BWS.
He could have just said something along the lines of “it’s up to Steve”.
not be much uptake on season tickets with statements like that
If I recall correctly most on here were in favour of Wyness’ appointment as CEO. Now we have a general move towards removing the manager and CEO.
Villa in analogy is like a massive oil tanker that has been moving in the wrong direction and, at the same time slowly sinking, for several years. Just turning it around is a massive undertaking let alone having to bale it out at the same time.
Of course there are mistakes being made but if we continually change the captain and chief engineer then we are making the solution harder to find.
This season should have been about stopping it sinking but for many that is not enough. Forget turning it around that is for the future assuming we can first bale a whole lot harder!
Good post H60 I agree 100%.
Hitch I’ve spent the day trying to dig some dirt on him (KW) and there’s nothing, the bloke is squeaky clean.
He’s been the director of a number of now dissolved companies (and forgive my ignorance if I’m wrong) meaning they were wound up owing nought to anyone.
Ok he’s Mr Outsource but unfortunately ain’t that the way of the world now?
One thing he tried during his time at Aberdeen was to try to cut players wages and have them bonus related, no bad thing imo.
Found some tweets from disgruntled Everton fans that opposed the Kirby move and that was it.
Like him or loathe him he’s there to do a job and we’re going to have to live with it.
Correct BWS – you can ‘dissolve’ companies for a number of reasons (for instance restructuring or sale to a third party) but only if they are ‘solvent’. I’m currently involved in the process of ‘dissolving’ a company by disposing of its assets and distributing the funds to charity so should not necessarily be viewed as a negative.
You’re probably right Hitch.
But my overall view and that of all of us, I’m sure is that we just shouldn’t be in this state.
We just shouldn’t!
The money we’ve spent and we’re still talking relegation again, just demonstrates it.
If we were totally potless and couldn’t pay the bills, I might understand…..
But of course you know this yourself.
Fwiw, I don’t particularly want Wyness gone. He just comes across as a bean-counter more than anything.
And if you’ve read that fans’ consultation, the majority of it just comes across as all the questions an accountant would ask, not a fan’s group, as much as I understand money is the be all and end all these days
Quite disappointing really, tbh.
Like most I’m at a complete loss to understand what is happening. we have a new modern thinking, ambitious and enthusiastic owner who is successful in business, a CEO who has a good track record and a manager with a good CV by anyone’s book (whether or not you like him) – we have a squad with undeniable quality and yet here we are looking over our shoulders again – I’m at a complete loss to understand it and neither do I have any clue as to the solution.
Perhaps it is just about holding our nerve at this moment in time – I really don’t envy SB’s job and any decent manager interested in taking us on must either be super cocky or suicidal!