Hitchens60 has posted the following, cheers Hitch;
So we have the French Prime Minister banning football (well, sport in general) until September. Then we have the FIFA medical chief arguing strongly that football should now look to next season to start afresh. Add the fact that both Belgium and Holland have abandoned this season’s leagues and there is a mounting argument for abandoning the 19/20 season.
Then add to that the new spike in Covid infections in Germany which may well lead to a suppression of the Bundesliga’s proposed restart in mid May -all eyes on Merkel’s statement tomorrow – and I think it’s becoming increasingly doubtful that this seasons leagues will be completed.
Of course there are many issues to be considered – this seasons European competition and qualification for next season. Promotion and relegation, complicated by clubs who have or, who will, file for administration. But not least of all MONEY – and in particular the TV contracts.
But football does not have – and nor should it have – some divine right to set itself above the normal vagaries of financial influence. Sky (and the other TV contract holders) will have to work out an acceptable compromise as without the football clubs there is no TV money!
For what it’s worth, my view is we should (the football authorities should) accept that it’s not (equitably) possible to complete the 19/20 season and start working towards a solution dealing with promotion / relegation now and over the next couple of seasons. I think this makes for an interesting discussion on AV News and Views based on the premise that the season cannot be completed.
Finally I cite, in support of my argument, that cricket in England has already agreed that July is the earliest possible start date but it’s already being suggested that there may be no cricket in 2020. In such circumstances how can football argue that it’s possible to complete the 19/20 season by starting training in May and football (albeit behind closed doors) in June – arrogance?
Good question.
My opinion is that somehow they’re going to have to finish the season, else they’re going be sued left, right and centre.
The only other option is there is no promotion or relegation and we just start again next season.
Cricket’s decision seems a strange one.
If you sterilise the ball and the player’s hands and ensure social distancing, surely the risk is very low?
It’s not like it’s a contact sport and if they sort it properly, they could even maintain the distance when running?
It would only change the play slightly in that slips and the wickey wouldn’t be able to get as close sometimes.
Of course, it would have to be behind closed doors and it’s obviously a money thing that’s caused that decision.
Well we will know after tomorrow’s meetings about Finnishing the rest of the season by playing in July. The league are considering July to play but I think it should be void if you asked me. I know it means life or death to us staying up or going down but its something that’s never been seen before. My vote is start again.
Badger – your cricket comments nicely explain the point I was making. If a low contact sport feels it’s not possible to recommence matches (whether behind closed doors or not) before July, how can football argue it can make a start in June?
I think I’m right in saying that a decision has to be made by 25th May – can’t see that happening.
Hitch, there’s a big difference.
Footy receives the vast majority of it’s money via Sky.
People would still pay Sky to watch games, even behind closed doors.
Whereas Cricket gets most of it’s money via people coming in to watch and next to nothing from TV.
At least that’s how I think it is, with Cricket?
It’s nothing to do with the sport.
And all about if it’s viable, money-wise, imo.
Cricket players have probably been furloughed and the clubs can manage on that. For now anyway.
Footy clubs just can’t.
I’m also not sure how Cricket contracts work, but wonder if you have players on 3-4 year contracts?
Either way, it all comes down to money.
Indeed, a quick Wiki shows the following;
“In 2017 the ECB signed a new media rights deal valued at £1.1billion to cover the five years between 2020 and 2024. This deal will be used to fund a broad range of initiatives across the sport at all levels, including a guaranteed and unprecedented £475million to fund the county network – First-Class Counties, National Counties and County Boards.”
And this;
“18 First-Class Counties
21 County Boards in National Counties (formerly the Minor Counties)”
National counties I assume is England and Wales.
County boards? I assume they’re taking a big wedge.
So £475 mill/ 5 = about £95 million a year between that lot.
Even if you discount the rest and just leave the 18 counties, it’s what?
£5 million a year per club at best?
And no doubt the top clubs/ grounds take the lion’s share.
It doesn’t even buy you an average Championship player. And if you add in the “minor counties” and the rest, it’s way less; probably nearer £3 mill?
£60k a week.
Sorry to labour the point Hitch, but this is the reality.
Whereas it’ll be bad for Cricket, Footy just can’t survive if it doesn’t play the season out, imo.
They’re literally different games.
Badger it’s relative – the money in football / cricket I mean. Although the financial deal is a lot less (in cricket) without it I suspect a number of county cricket clubs would simply fail. The only gate revenue of note is through test matches and the related international one day and 20/20 games (the money from which is then distributed through the game by the ECB who also pay the central contracts of the International players) and from the domestic big bash. Your average attendance at county games can be measured on the fingers of one hand – figuratively speaking!
Forget the EPL – compare the finances of cricket with the lower Championship and League 1/2 clubs.
Personally, I think football (certainly at EPL) level only cares about itself – and money (as you say).
Oh and just to add – £3m to a minor county is a huge sum of money! Money not only goes to the county and minor county clubs but is distributed through the game to district leagues and local club cricket as well.
Also – the ECB have now decided to postpone the launch of ‘The Hundred’ until 2021. This is a massive blow financially both to clubs and players who will lose hundreds of thousand of pounds – in a sport that can ill afford to lose this sort of revenue.
Football take note.
To begin with it seems unlikely they would get a restart before end of May at the earliest. So unless they concertina all the remaining 9/10 games there will be no break before next season is ready to start.
It’s not stretching a point to say that for quite a few teams there is already not much to play for.
So how about this:-
Abandon the remaining fixtures.
Recognise Liverpool as champions.
Take the present bottom three in the PL – call them A,B and C and let them play, not against each other but a home and an away game ( two per week only needs three weeks) against D,E and F – top three in championship – and the results go into a mini-table so the top three – say A, B and E start next season in Prem and C, D & F in C’ship. The same thing could be done across all leagues.
Not a 100% ideal situation but could sort the wheat from the chaff and provide some interest generally.
As far as people suing people what about ‘force majeure’? No reasonable person can blame anyone for the effects of Covid.
At least they will all be around to debate matters ……..
Interesting idea V57.
However the end of the season is decided it’ll be an artificially constructed outcome and probably less than equitable – hence Badgers point about legal action being taken.
For my four pennyworth I would declare the season null and void BUT I would award Liverpool the trophy on the basis that they’ve earned it by being by far and away the best side – and I think the other PLteams would support that. No relegation and Leeds / West Brom promoted which would head off any serious legal action. 22 teams in the EPL with 4 teams relegated / 3 promoted over the next two seasons.
NO repayment to Sky but they (and others) get a higher number of EPL matches to live televise next season to compensate for the ‘overpayment’ in the current season. Given there may be no or smaller live crowds this would more than compensate Sky et al with higher incomes from sales of live games.
They just need to employ me to sort it out £200k consultancy fee would do it 🙂
Badger, just a hint, I’ve been in moderation for 12 hours,
Bill, you posted that first post on a different device or from somewhere else. I don’t know why it’s being blocked, but I’ve now approved it anyway.
As you’ve obviously seen, you’re okay on the other way you’re posting.
Strange.
EDIT
Ah, I’ve just seen it.
Look at the name you signed in with 🙂
That Hitch is what I would settle for, everyone should understand this that what we’re going through is something the world has never seen before. Clubs should take it as the answer to the problem, Villa has a chance to escape the drop and that chance should be given..
Interesting views from everyone. I think they should abandon the 20/21 season to allow plenty opportunity to complete the remaining games from this season. Even if it means restarting early next year, which until a vaccine is ready might be a reality. I would rather Villa escape relegation on merit rather than intervention of others.
Indeed Holte.
“Merit” is open to interpretation though.
Wasn’t if Eufa who said that clubs nominated for the Champion’s league shoud be on merit?
What on earth does that mean?
As they stand at the moment?
Or COUGH (whoever bungs the most money?) COUGH.
Oh, to be honest, I’d rather we cancel this season, full stop.
But still allow a transfer window in the summer.
Because unless there’s some dramatic change, I don’t think we have a hope in hell of escaping relegation.
The players just aren’t good enough or the manager isn’t making them perform to their best. It’d be hard enough with support.
Take your pick, but if we were to play fixtures without the support of the fans, I’d say we’re doomed.
I must have needed a Pea Badger. Sorry mate. ,,
There is an article on BBC web site today (sorry can’t find out how to cut and paste a link) reporting on the meeting yesterday around restarting the season,
Frankly, the ideas are so ludicrous and inequitable as to be a joke and will lead to an artificially constructed season. The ideas (around neutral venues) will particularly disadvantage teams in the relegation battle losing home ‘advantage’
As the BBC say – ‘litigation is inevitable’.
And what purpose will it serve – other than mammon!
I wouldn’t bother Hitch, its still down to the government to whether it happens, as for neutral ground, Villa could be one of them.
Bill, if you believe the BBC article it claims (or the EPL claim) the Government are encouraging them to find a way to complete the season – really?
Whatever steps they put in place it flies in the face of everything the Government have said about social distancing and not unduly putting the emergency services at risk!
With the latest news about finishing the season on neutral ground. It’s the big six that want this. And I think their afraid of Aston villa owners. And are trying everything to make sure we get relegated,hence keeping us from challenging the big boy’s. And keeping us in the championship where we will also get points deducted.
I’m very suspicious of everything i know,but think about it anyway.
I would like the season null and void unless teams can play as normal.
Also remember villa’s game in hand is at home to Sheffield United so if have to play all remaining games in neutral grounds, villa will be punished even more.
Even if it was not villa with game in hand I’d still say it’s extra punishment.
Roy, with respect, I don’t see why the top six would give a flying about us?
Even if our owners are minted, they can’t pump that much money in as to alter anything, because of FFP.
As for Villa vs Sheff U at home, sadly, if it came down to this, well …..
Fortunately, it doesn’t.
But if we have to play in neutral grounds, I really can’t fancy us.
The funny thing is we seem to have the best home record of the bottom 3.
F*ck!
It just seems everything we do just doesn’t go our way.
Similar to Newcastle, fwiw.
I think if the season is resumed our players will have an advantage as our midfield has been social distancing for the last 12 months
New report suggests a number of EPL clubs (basically those at the wrong end of the table) will only support neutral venues if the threat of relegation is removed.
Whereas we’re in favour of it;
“The B6 side are currently 19th as it stands with a game in hand over their relegation rivals yet, it’s claimed, Villa want to play on and are convinced they have enough to get out of trouble, with the returning John McGinn backed to be a catalyst for Premier League survival.”
https://www.birminghammail.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/aston-villas-premier-league-stance-18191464
If that’s true, which lunatic has made that decision?
Purslow?
Football in England sold its soul with the advent of the Premier League. Money is the new god and greed is good.
The Premier League should have put in place rules regarding the non completion of the league. As they have not, they can’t make something up on the spur of the moment.
The loss of income from TV contracts and being sued is a red herring. Business is business and a compromise would occur. For example, more matches could be live to TV once football resumes. That would clear the back log owed matches to the TV companies.
Sadly hundreds are dying in England everyday. If football had any integrity it would cancel the season null and void.
If I were Villa’s owners I would look to tie up the Premier League in litigation stopping the start of any new season. Our owners have very deep pockets, something not all clubs have.
Instead of the Premier focusing solely on themselves, they should be looking to support all 4 professional leagues in this country.
As a side issue player contracts should be changed when re- negotiated. All clubs should be able to insert a clause that players would receive equivalent of government furlough scheme for future pandemics. This help smaller clubs.
Finally, if I were the Chancellor of the Exchequer I would now go after football clubs in a big way. Tied into the larger picture, our country has massively increased its debt. PAYE is not sufficient to repay it and we are already paying a hefty sum. Go after large corporations and off shore business owners who pay little if any tax. Introduce a sales tax .e.g. 10% on sales. That means the likes of Spurs who furloughed staff when profitable will pay more tax due to their larger overseas income.
Keep safe.
It seems to me we have two hopes of staying up. A) Season abandonment, and everything is null and void. B) Finish the season.
Every other scenario I’ve read and we get relegated. Although, given the amount of money involved, it would be very harsh to relegate teams with 10 games left. Would be a complete disaster for us.
However, if we finish the season playing on neutral grounds, or even with empty stadiums, I think we struggle to beat the drop. Even with McGinn back, the loss of VP home crowd would be massive.
I think I’ll take abadnoned season. Villa stay up, and Liverpool dont win the league!
Benno, it would seem Villa are in a group of clubs that want to finish the season – whether that’s on the basis of no relegation is not clear. However, from reports, it would seem there is a large(ish) group that will only support completion of the season – using neutral venues – if there is no relegation.
If you believe reports, there are also problems over players contracts (which, apparently generally expire in June) and players themselves saying they are being pressured into returning when they don’t feel it’s safe to do so! Also loans will expire before the season can get back underway.
Looking at what other sport is doing then I think they’re flying a kite on season completion.
They should abandon the season and start planning how they are going to start next season which, as things stand, will still be a logistical nightmare! Closed stadia with games played at out of town neutral venues?
Lots of interesting comments; thanks guys.
Sadly, I’ve reached a position where I am completely ambivalent over the rest of this season. Whatever, however, they do it, it’s not going to be an equitable outcome (apart from Liverpool winning the league – it hurt to say it but they deserve it).
As for paying Sky to watch games at neutral venues with no crowds – no thanks; can’t think of anything more depressing.
Badger
My neighbour who is a Southampton season ticket holder informed me that the saints have dug up their pitch to regrow for next year. I have no reason to doubt him. Is this a potential driver in the clammer neutral grounds?
Sid – according to one report, Villa Park satisfies the neutral ground criteria – so we could play all 10 games at VP. Stay at Home – no unnecessary travel 🙂
Sid, many clubs change the turf out.
My understanding is that it’s amazing how quick it settles and is ready to play on.
If you’ve been to VP outside normal times, you’ll see artificial lighting etc.
It isn’t “real” grass, as we know it in our gardens.
Hitch, I just want some news to comment on!
Well Badger – EPL are meeting today to discuss ‘Project Restart’ so maybe that will raise some points for comment.
One point occurs – if they restart using neutral venues, who will pay those clubs whose grounds are being used the costs associated there with?
Very good point and I’ll bet that’s one that’s being discussed.
50/50 for the clubs involved?
Purslow ought to be saying to whoever wants to do it “you want it, you pay for it”, but it won’t happen.
It’s a serious question though as it’ll only add to whatever are going to be massive losses for clubs.
Mind you, I suppose the EPL can say if we don’t finish the season, you won’t get the league position money.
Slight aside, but maybe a bit of good news for you?
https://www.birminghammail.co.uk/news/midlands-news/over-70s-pregnant-women-dont-18234802
I was a bit concerned at ‘the over 70’s pregnant women’ bit of the link 🙂 wondered if you knew something I didn’t 🙂
It’s nice to know that I’m now considered to be in the ‘clinically vulnerable group’ whereas last March I wasn’t! What a difference a year makes.
Another thing is, will they broadcast games on terrestrial TV?
They ought to imo, but that won’t happen either.
$ly and BT must be licking their lips.
Have postponed my Sky sports package and will probably cancel it as the prospect of paying to watch sport behind closed doors is as appealing as watching paint dry!
Haha, you couldn’t make this up.
It now transpires that every club is against playing at neutral grounds;
https://www.birminghammail.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/aston-villa-project-restart-news-18235355
It’s why I don’t want to post anything about it until we get a definitive decision.
It’s all bullshit.
Maybe the dissenting clubs have won the day and the threat of court action won out?
Whatever, I think this might be to our advantage.
I really can’t see any other outcome other than we have an extra two clubs in the Prem next season.
With 6 out of our remaining 10 games at home, it would seriously disadvantage us. As I previously said, whatever they do the outcome of the season will be artificially contrived and bound to end up in litigation.
Whilst I think that overall the Government are doing a decent job, I do disagree with Boris saying ‘the return of sport will be a moral booster for the nation’ and it seems that over 70% of the population (well the 2,500 polled by YouGov anyway) agree with me.
For me its all about money and i cant see any other option other than to finish the season. Clubs wont really have a say in any of it, they just get drafted in to meetings etc to make it look like proper governance is being followed but thats just a smoke screen. We will be playing out our 10 games. So, I think they are saying substitutions will increase to 5 per game which is good but our subs never really inspire me to think they could change a game sadly. Having Mcginn back would be a boost for sure, It would be great if they removed the February player registration ruling so that we could bring back Wesley and Heaton as i’m sure they will be nearing a return to fitness come mid to end of June. I wonder if we could put that motion forward? Not sure what affect removing that rule would have across the board though. Anyway whatever happens we need a massive effort from everyone in the squad to stay up this season, relegation would be a disaster!
It would seem, if you believe anything the media report, that all 20 EPL clubs rejected neutral venues at Monday’s meetings. Interesting considering the Brum Mail, not a few days earlier, were reporting that the EPL were threatening all sorts of retribution on the bottom 6 six clubs if they dare oppose the neutral venue plan.
As Adam and others have said – it’s all about money!