Now the dust has died down a little with regards to Sherwood’s sacking, I’ve been trying to think about what it is exactly that Aston Villa need from an incoming manager.
I’ve said previously that the job has become a poisoned chalice and that’s definitely true, as although the manager and his assistants might change, the hierarchy won’t be.
I was hoping that there might be a root and branch change, with Hendrik Almstadt (sporting director) and Paddy Reilly (director of recruitment) getting the bullet too, as it strikes me they’re all part of the team that has overseen the disaster that has been the first quarter of the season.
Taking a retrospective view, there’s obviously been a divide at the club over the last few months, with the coaching staff on one side and if you believe what Sherwood’s said about who signed many of the players, the recruitment team.
But no, it’s obvious that Randy Lerner has sided with the team that recruited the players that frankly haven’t performed and most likely aren’t going to as things stand.
Just before I explain what I think that means, can I just say how glad I am that Wilkins has gone?
I fail to see exactly what he added to the setup and as far as I know didn’t seem to offer much advice to a beleaguered Sherwood.
Did he really approve of the team selections and tactics? If so, I doubt he’ll ever manage again.
I suspect the only contribution he made was probably “keep playing Westwood”, but it’s by the by.
I’m digressing, but just wanted to say that, sorry.
So it doesn’t take an Einstein to work out that it will be business as usual, with any new manager having to work with mostly the players that Almstadt and Reilly’s policy decide to bring in.
A policy that is based on Moneyball tactics.
It’s a nice sounding policy, but it’s basically a different version of what we saw under Lambert, in that you look for young, up and coming players.
Ok, they’re bought based on statistics, with a view that we can make money on them, if they perform and the chances are that you’ll get some players who might make a profit. Indeed, it looks like we could possibly turn a profit on Amavi.
But they’re still ultimately cheap; that’s the whole idea, after all, isn’t it?
Now, it’s a great policy if it works and any profits are re-invested in the team, with a view to constantly improving the squad.
But Lerner hasn’t invested any decent money for a long time now, so I doubt anything is going to change and it strikes me that any profit we might make will only go to Randy Lerner’s back pocket.
So what’s the point?
What it basically says is that we have absolutely zero ambition, in my opinion.
Which is why I don’t believe that any manager that has ever been in a higher position than we currently are will countenance the idea.
Now I have no idea what sort of setup David Moyes is working under at Real Sociedad, but I think it’s safe to say we have no chance whatsoever of getting him in. Or any other previously reasonably successful Premier league manager, including Rodgers.
So who’s going to come in then?
Well, it’s going to be someone who thinks that £15 million (if we’re lucky) is a decent spend.
Someone who has demonstrated that he can work without a boatload of money, but still achieve at a decent level.
Hence Remi Garde, as has been alluded to in The Guardian, The Daily Mail and various other news sites, fits the bill perfectly.
Assuming he’s used to working with a setup where he doesn’t choose the players, that is?
But it’s an appointment that’s not without risk.
While foreign managers are seen by many as the way to go, they simply don’t always work.
Villas-Boas was seen as THE next up-and-coming manager, for example.
Not that I’m saying we shouldn’t go for a foreign manager (although I might question why he’s been out of work for a while?).
It’s more that I don’t think that whoever comes in will make much difference, at least in the time allotted.
We need someone who can revitalise the team quickly, pretty much in the same way, erm, Sherwood did.
Will any foreign manager, who will be coming in to a strange country be able to do that?
It’s why Garde is probably our best bet, in that he knows the English game to an extent, having played for Arsenal.
He also knows the country, obviously.
But while I will of course support any manager that comes in, I believe his tenure will be ultimately doomed to failure.
Because nothing has really changed and we’re stuck in a loop.
Very simply we should appoint Lucien Favre. What he did with borussia gladtobeback was nothing short of absolutely superb
Well, yes, he’d probably be a good shout too.
Whoever it is who comes in, I’d like to think he’s already been spoken too and the deal pretty well done.
We can’t go weeks in no man’s land.
right now we’re doomed. If it takes a couple of weeks to do a bit of screening to make sure we have the right man in charge I don’t think it’s gonna make much difference at this stage. The worst thing we can do is a make a panic appointment just to have someone in place which unfortunately with our board is probably gonna happen. We’ll end up with poyet!
Poyet!
Not even our board would be that daft.
Would they?
Honestly no, I don’t think they could be that stupid but, it wouldn’t surprise me. There are a lot of managers available right now who scare the hell out of me, Pearson dyche redknapp Rogers poyet and the likes, easy to get want work and will say yes
That’s exactly why I don’t think we’ll go down that road, as there’s no chance any of those will save us.
We’ve tried the British route and it’s failed.
A foreign manager (who many have called for) is about the only option left.
And if that fails, that’s when things will get really scary, as the hierarchy will be left even more clueless, imo.
That they will!! But then there should be nothing left but to look in the mirror to face the real problem. Maybe then they’ll realize or at least Lerner will/should. He needs to move on. He’s draining the life out the club! I’m feeling it. It’s not fun being a villa fan and hasn’t been for 5 odd years now. It’s one bad decision after another after another and it’s costing the reputation of one the great historic football clubs. We are a laughing stock, although in fact I see a lot of pity for us from fort balling circles rather than piss-taking, it’s a sorry state of affairs for a club our size. Dilusion aside we should be a steady top half club no more no less.
We could end up on that list along with forest and Leeds and that would be a tragedy
Badger. We’ve been in no man’s land for five years ! A few more weeks won’t worry our owners ! ????
I can’t argue with you Tekkers.
But you know what I mean.
I like the sound of Garde, but would have preferred him before we were at the bottome of the league!
That’s my concern too.
If we were a few places higher, it gives you a bit of breathing room.
But I suppose the problem will be the same whoever comes in.
I just feel it’s a big ask for anyone.
Oh dear people still believing there’s any chance of change with Lerner pulling all the strings. It’s amazing how people want to ignore Lerner and continue to accept the manipulation and contempt. Believing any manager under Lerner can make a difference.
Any manager who accepts Lerners condo so is not worth considering as Villa boss. It will be another yes man. Aiming for 17th place to line Lerners pockets.
I believe we get what we deserve.
With people still focusing on managers but unable or unwilling to connect the common denominator and cause of our decline over 6 seasons we as a club are lost.
We deserve relegation.
As for the potential sale is it a coincidence that Lerners yearly rant comes out when season tickets are due?
Propaganda in my view.
Sooner this club is relegated the better.
Lerner out
Ted, I’m sympathetic to that view and hopefully you can see it in my post.
But I just can’t wish for the club to go down, as much as I can see it might help if it forces Lerner to sell cheap.
And what if he doesn’t sell?
The thought of us trying to get back up with even less investment than we get now….
Well, it just scares me.
Badger happened before we went to the old third division.
Where we are currently is embarrassing most Villa fans expect our games to be poor and for us to lose while struggling to remain in the prem. It hurst and it’s unacceptable.
The only person happy and making money is Lerner.
I for one have had enough if it means relegation dropping a few divisions and going into the wilderness for a few years (let’s face it for the last six we have been a laughing stock) so be it.
At present fans are hurting and losing our club.
Time Lerner experienced financial loss and empty stadiums.
We should be looking for a good championship manager as that’s where we will be playing our football next season. The one constant that has saved us over the past few seasons has been proven goal scorer. Something we don’t have this time round and will be too late to look one come January. Before a ball was kicked this season i felt we needed to be on 25 points plus by the end of December to avoid a relegation battle this season. We will be luck to achieve that total by May. We were in a hole when O’Neil left and we just kept on digging. Incompetent owner and running of the club has ruined us. No manager worth their salt would touch us at the moment given our position other than another wannabe that knows their in for a nice severence package when it all goes tits up.
I wa going to try & post something regarding the manager I’m fucked if I could bother after reading Ted’s post so I’m in the process of calling the Samaritans thanks for FUCKall Ted
Lol!!!
The more I read about Garde the more I like it. I get Ted’s point, but surely we are more likely to be sold if we seem to be going places, or at least improving. Moyes I can’t get excited about, and Rodgers, although I like him, is probably not the right person.
I think the positive thing about Garde is that it appears to show some imagination. Poyet…..oh God no! Pearson…self destruct button. There again, plenty of us wanted OGS. Plenty more are glad we didn’t get him. That just shows we are all probably as bad as Lerner in choosing a (realistic) manager. Can you imagine if Klopp was coming in right now? I think Liverpool have got a major success there.
DS can you honestly see Lerner selling if we stay up? Considering he refuses to spend and will have the new TV money? Why sell?
It’s more likely years and years of the same mediocrity. No investment, relying on youth and cheap purchases to survive with the odd success being sold at a profit.
What satisfaction is there in this?
I think he has had enough and wants to get out with his shirt still on. Just the impression I get. I think ny sane person will see that without limitless funding you have no chance of sustaining a break up of the top 4, so apart from the chancers who want to milk the club and the Prem financial muscle we are pretty much stuffed in that. That means our only real chance of some improvement is a good coach/manager to get the best out of what we have and work within Lerner’s financial parameters.
Ahh Sky Sports reporting that Garde can’r bring his right hand man (Lyon refusing to let him speak to anyone else) and that’s why he didn’t go to Newcastle. That would be disappointing.
Well unless Lyon throw Génésio and Baticle into a bunker without a phone or internet I really can’t see them stopping us from talking to us. If not us, through someone else or even Garde himself. The reality is money talks, sure these guys are an employee of Lyon, but if they want to join Garde on his adventure to Villa I am sure the club will meet their fee in the end.
sorry… talking to them. not us… that would just be awkward.
If Lerner wanted to sell the club as an attractive prospect then the twat is going the wrong way about it. I have never cone across a more clueless individual. Sorry to harp on about the Cleveland Browns, but there he did the same thing year after year hiring the wrong staff as the value of the club rose naturally over time. For SIXTEEN YEARS. He’s doing exactly the same here!!!!! If he wanted us to look good in the shop window, then we should have fought to keep Benteke and Delph. Bought as we have (mostly) and got a decent keeper in, not just spent the proceeds of the sales. Look where that has got us. Four points five days away from November 1st. I’ve never truly believed that we’d actually go down the past few years even though it’s been close, but this year I’d be amazed if we stay up. We are a dogs dinner of a club and for the first time want to see us drop. Then Lerner can cut his losses, fuck off and we can rebuild. The saddest thing that can happen is for us to escape relegation once again, Lerner to pocket the immoral TV deal money and ‘we go again’. Season after bloody season. I thought Fox would really work for us, but it seems we’ve been shafted once again. It doesn’t matter who our new manager is going to be. We’re well and truly buggered.
We still have a chance and most importantly time is on our side! There’s plenty of games left to turn it around. The problem is trusting our board with the right appointment! They keep getting it bloody wrong because there a bunch of suits with no football in them. If you believe the rags fox has phoned wenger for advice on garde, a totally plausible story!! It’s a complete joke.
And can u imagine the icing on the cake? We go down and the Scum pass us on the way up!
http://sportwitness.ning.com/forum/topics/from-france-garde-could-take-duverne-with-him-to-aston-villa-talk what do you make of the last paragraph
Is GH fit enough to return to full time duties? Don’t want him having another heart attack. For his sake, not ours. If Lerner is prepared to cough up the Lyon will trigger the release.
sure he was DOF when garde was manager at lyon
Frustrations aside, I simply just don’t trust Villa (Lerner) to a) make the right appointments, or b) invest properly. If you screw those two up then relegation will happen eventually. It’s like we’re looking for someone who hit on a formula to perform miracles on no budget, then expect them to repeat that at Villa Park. Fact is, these models don’t often travel. Will be interesting to see if Klopp bucks this trend…
I made a recent comment – largely ignored – that we need someone like Houllier on the board. A real football man. Apparently he is highly regarded by Lerner and if well enough would be a perfect addition as DoF or similar. A role as director is less stressful than that of manager.
Strangely I think there is an upside for any manager coming in now with expectations so low he can hardly go any worse – even if we are relegated I would see any new manager having an opportunity to develop a team capable of getting back and building a solid base in the PL and if, by any miracle, he keeps us up …. Well!
The problem is that whoever comes in will create deep division amongst the supporters and just maybe that division is part of the problem – please don’t all hit me at once!
I don’t think it was ignored H60.
Just nothing you can argue against.
You’re right in what you’re saying.
While Lerner looks at the club purely from a statistical and monetary POV, we’ll never achieve anything.
I genuinely believe it hasn’t sunk in just yet what relegation will mean.
The club needs footy people, simple as.
As for any new manager, well that’s going to be interesting, imo.
If we get relegated, the clamour for his head will be nigh on irresistable.
Will Lerner and the board have the balls to stick with him and let him rebuild?
I can’t think of any big clubs that have done that recently?
If the Board aren’t prepared to give a new manager a real run at it they should appoint someone to the end of the season with a juicy new contract if they keep us up – we can then appoint Dwight Yorke 🙂
No a billion time to Yorke what credentials had he got to manage us other than being a traitor
I wasn’t being serious OohAh!
I wished somebody would have paid me £2M to quit my job because I had failed as comprehensively as TS.
At the back of it all is the question “Was AVFC ever truly up for sale at £150M?” I am more sure with passing time that it wasn’t because at that price in the summer before a player had been bought – that was really cheap. It follows that it if wasn’t for sale, then Lerner intends to stick around. Pity.
Moneyball is not going to work with football, because it cannot value the partnerships, and just as importantly the animosities players form with their teammates, except if the idea is to sell many key players each year – thus disposing of all the pegs that turned out to be square. That has worked for Southampton so far, but I think they have been lucky – if they have another clear-out at the end of this season and still come back stronger I will believe in it..
Is there some hope for the new manager? Yes, the team has not been hammered – defensive errors are not being made as often by the inexperienced players, as by the old guard who are incorrigible. A new manager can make sweeping changes there. I feel the attack can be made to work if given a style to play with, and a permanent right winger.
What we pay 2M a pop for – is the genius who can tailor that style from this squad.
Garde does seem to suit what we need.
But someone posted an excellent link on here last night or the night before, which analysed some of his games.
The one thing that stood out, was that his defenders made some massive individual errors.
Which had the alarm bells ringing.
This is our biggest single problem and something that will have to be sorted.
How you go about that without being able to bring new defenders in before January is a major worry.
OLL not limited to football it’s common throughout the corporate world and admit that I benefited at least once – although it wasn’t £2m 🙂 it was a decent settlement!
Really wish everyone would shut up about Lerner. Its like living in the shadow of a mountain, you can curse the mountain as much as you like but it won’t achieve much.
I have no idea what Lerner is up to and I don’t believe that anyone on this blog does either.
Let’s change what we can change.
I believe that (with a few exceptions GK and RB) we potentially have quite a good squad. Possibly better than anything I’ve seen since MON’s days.
We need someone in who can unlock that potential. With the limitations Lerner has imposed we won’t be top 6 at any time but we could do a lot better than we’re currently doing.
TBH I’d give my eyebrows for a mediocre mid-table finish for the next few seasons!
UTV
With the right fan action, we can move any mountain. Just like The Shamen. Don’t be a doormat Pat. Lerner doesn’t have to be here forever.
But Pat all roads lead to Lerner and just how and what can we change?
And our glorious Leaders game plan? Well I believe it goes along these lines –
Spend f**k all.
Finish 17th.
Pass go and collect the SKY money.
High risk ‘Money Ball’ transfer policy.
And Pat I think you might just get your mediocre mid-table finish – albeit it in the Championship.
the fact that Garde has no premier league experience is a little worrying as given our current predicament, he has to hit the ground running. However, he does have a good track record, and tactically should be miles better than Sherwood.
The other bonus is that our best players are mainly French speaking, and I think it will be the likes of Gana, Amavi and Ayew that can drag help us out of this mess.
We cannot succeed with this lineup. A team this bad doesnt get miraculously better w a new manager. Couldnt we all see that despite all of these purchases, there were huge holes? A true attacking midfielder. Someone who can score with a foot. Who watches our match and thinks we are close to putting it all together? This squad had no chance from day one.
Im a long beleaguered Browns fan from the States who watched Randy and his dad destroy our proud club and turn it into laughingstock….same thing hes doing w Villa.
We r fucked mates.
Still…vtid
Oh and Guzan sucks
http://m.thenational.ae/sport/english-premier-league/sherwood-only-a-symptom-of-how-far-sunderland-emulating-aston-villa-have-fallen
A fair assessment from an oversea rag:
Benito Carbone anyone? 🙂
Bum Bum,
That’s an excellent article.
Carbone?
No ta.
I see the article comes from the ‘UAE National’ That is just the sort of newspaper that we should put a small ad in. “New owner required. Team with huge support if playing well. Fine ground with Mosques close by.” Qatar Airlines haven’t got a Stadium with their name on it yet.
Here we go again with the clusterf**k that is Aston Villa –
The Telegraph
Aston Villa’s move for Remi Garde under threat.
Garde has held talks with Villa and wants to appoint his own backroom staff, but his favoured personnel are struggling to leave their current positions.
BWS,
I find that quite strange, as that was the reason he apparently turned Newcastle and Sunderland down.
So why has he been talking to the Villa, when he knows the issue still remains?
I’m beginning to wonder if it’s all just a bit of a smokescreen, myself.
It makes no sense, as you point out he turned down Newcastle & Sunderland for the same reason, so we sack Sherwood put the fella in the frame knowing the chances are he’ll only come with his back room staff, staff that are tied down to contracts with their present clubs.
This then results in Villa paying a shite load of compo to get them released (that’s if the club is willing to release them).
Only at at Villa.
According to Talksport odds are tumbling on Gus Poyet.